Post by Admin on Jul 12, 2020 2:18:28 GMT
Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism SECOND THREAD LINK
www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13
Creationism, Myths & Catastrophism FIRST THREAD SUMMARY (Second Thread Summary in Next Post)
(from www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=17502 )
(I show below the thread page numbers followed by a line of the initials of the posters, followed by lines that start with the initials of posters and then mention their important points, and the last line for each page shows the date of the last post on the page.)
<Nov 27, 2019 10:54 am
1. www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=17502
LK LK LK M LK JP M JP BB JP BB BB BB JP LK
JP_Gen 15:12 & 37:9 [sun plausibly =] "Saturn" [moon =] "Crescent"
*LK_Mike Fischer's rapid continental drift
*LK_Baumgardner's Noah's Flood
LK_plan to compare catastrophist models.
LK_strata.
*LK_Floods to strata.
*JP_Berthault on Stratification
JP_Tas Walker's typical Biblical Geological Model
JP_JP' model: Baumgartner on tidal-waves, but caused by Earth orbiting Saturn, & linear Saturn system at mid-point of the flood (Gen 8:2-4) until ~700 BCE
LK_"Great Deep" = sky
--<BB_= ocean>
JP_bible resources
LK_"Torah Historicity"
LK_shamash links
JP_Cre'sa "very good" Gen 1:31 & no death at Gen 3:19 = no cataclysmic events before Genesis 7
BB_void = preliminary condition for creation
JP_6200 years since creation, but pre-Flood day and year length unknown
JP_All welcome to comment on hyperlinks
LK_maybe Earth = apparition in the sky & "deep" = sky & "face" = Saturn configuration
<Nov 30, 2019 8:20 pm
2. www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=17502&start=15
JP LK BB JP BB JP BB LK YD LK JP LK CC KC JP
LK_"Torah Historicity" Chronology at qdl.scs-inc.us/?top=6883
JP_CC's chronology messes up Christ's genealogy
BB_second verse of Genesis led > event which led > utter chaos
LK_"God" ~= Creator, "Earth" ~= our planet, "created" ~= from nothing
CC_Jesus' genealogy < 2nd Temple < King Josiah < 1st Temple maybe not verbatim
M_Moses' model: [strata] before ice ages, Noah's flood after
LK_Moses' catastrophist model at [ futureschool.boards.net/post/30/thread
M_Moses' model [not] < Thornhill
JP_Earth, Venus and Mars were in polar axial alignment with Saturn's poles
--<LK_??? Then how could Earth have orbited Saturn?>
JP_electrical discharge machining is missing piece of creationis[m]
JP_Mount St Helens strata, Electrical discharge machining, separate events of deposition
JP_Berthault's & Andrew Hall's ionic winds & Fossilisation = [short times]
BB_link to fossilized wire
JP_Saturnian Configuration is plausible
<Dec 02, 2019 10:02 pm
3. www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=17502&start=15
BB M JP LK CC M JP YD CC MX JP JP CC BB BB
JP_JEDPR analysis debunked
LK_CC's model < archeological findings
CC_Saturn theory conflicts with bible, but bible has catastrophist thread, evidence meteoric airburst over Dead Sea >> Sodom & Gomorrah
CC_bible's contradictions < redactors or divine intervention
*CC_dinosaurs [couldn’t live now]; atmosphere was a lot thicker? KT impact caused dramatic reduction in atmospheric buoyancy; affected vulcanism, flood basalts
JP_list of Hebrew words for all planets to Saturn
JP_Jesus criticized not second temple but Sadducees
JP_no explicit Saturnian imagery in bible, but many places deductable
JP_Josephus wrote re Christ
JP_editorial comments in Torah = glosses
YD_new religions formed worldwide 600 or 700 BC, no new Gods, see Irving Wolfe
CC_Deuteronomic History is probable fact
JP_maybe people could live to 900 before the flood as the world was different, maybe with a proto-Saturn 'mist' and plasmaspheric warming, Shang Dynasty reported longevity
JP_six days in Genesis
BB_God made two great lights. Gen 1:16 vs. Psalms
<Dec 07, 2019 4:23 pm
4. www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=17502&start=45
BB PM JP LK BB BB JP BB BB M JP LK BB PM LK
JP_author of Psalm 136 misunderstood Genesis 1:14-16
JP_"two great lights" of Genesis hints at a different sky in the past
BB_Gen 1:16 and Psalm 136:7-9 are two different types of literature, a historical account and a hymn, where planets and stars receive little emphasis
JP_there are no definite articles in the Hebrew of Ps 136:7: "You made great lights..."
JP_that passage is of critical importance to rebut creationists re Saturn theory
LK_CC/EDM
*LK_Charles explained craters formed by impacts at
www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=884&hilit=charleschandler+edm&start=135
<Dec 11, 2019 11:36 am
5. www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=17502&start=60
BB LK BB BB BB NC JP JP YD NC BB BB BB NC JP
BB_circumstantial evidence in Gen 1-11 for extraordinarily different conditions on earth: gigantism, long lifespans, mass extincion; appearance of rainbows; geographical barriers; loss of original language
LK_QUESTIONS: archeological evidence; Hebrew words for terms relevant to catastrophism
NC_The Many Faces of Venus by Ev Cochrane: www.maverickscience.com/the-many-faces-of-venus/
JP_8674 words in the entire Hebrew Scriptures [minus] 2,415 proper names = 6,259 words
JP_JP's catastrophist model
JP_*see re Mt. St. Helens creation.com/lessons-from-mount-st-helens re sedimentary deposition;
Canyons; Grooves cut in bedrock; Coal formation; polystrate tree fossils; Radioisotope dating
*YD_King List some 2400 years ago is oldest historical document; Sumerian sources 2000 BC
*YD_close agreement on the lifespans between Sumerian texts, the Bible and King List
YD_Hindu and Chinese said 9 patriarchs before the flood;
YD_read Bishop Ussher's Annals of the World
NC_"barad" in Worlds in Collision on p 55 as meteorites or hot rocks
NC_need comparative analysis
BB_terms for all celestial bodies in Deuteronomy 4:19
JP_Velikovsky has copious footnotes on various Hebrew words from p.207 ff Worlds in Collision
<Dec 13, 2019 9:12 pm
6. www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=17502&start=75
BB BB BB LK PM BB BB BB LK JP BB BB WM LK JP
BB_It was fiery hail _There is a verse which uses "evan" /stones and "barad"/hail as parallel terms for the same event, in which rocks fell from heaven Ex 9
PM_bible < Sumerian myths
PM_rapid continental drift < centrifugal force, mountains < weak rock, no subduction
PM_PM's model: Earth is much younger than 6,000 years; [no] rapid continental drift; Bolides could not [hit] planet(s); “craters” < planetary lightning; super continent broke < centrifugal force; local history = bible
PM_PM's model: meant to say earth could be older, but present terrain Could be 2-3 thousand years old; the continents broke up to where they are now in a day or so; people were scattered with the land masses; oldest book drew upon Sumerian myths
BB_petroglyphs around the world match plasma formations in the lab; pre-literate people's myths were replete with references to electricity, thunderbolts, and catastrophic events
BB_Cyrus Cylinder
BB_Important to physically test the historical ideas in catastrophism with field work and SEM testing
BB_events Old Testament not in cultural vacuum
BB_law code of Hammurabi compare with law code of Moses
BB_caste societies
WM_old testament vs new testament
<Dec 17, 2019 7:11 pm
7. www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=17502&start=90
LK LK BB BB BB BB JP BB NC LK JP CC LK CC BB
LK_interesting Hebrew words
LK_Great Deep
JP_analysis of Hebrew words associated with catastrophism; Benner's Ancient Hebrew Lexicon
JP_some Hebrew words relevant to catastrophism
NC_everything in the sky was a star and a god
LK_"Atenism & Early Judaism" at qdl.scs-inc.us/2ndParty/Pages/8232.html
JP_Adonai for YHWH
*<LK--Adonai = Aten? = Venus comet enclosure>
CC_similarities in Atenism & Early Judaism
CC_Abraham came before both Moses & Akhenaten
LK_TB team ~agree w Ages in Chaos
CC_Aten = Athena
<Dec 21, 2019 3:37 pm
8. www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=17502&start=105
BB CC BB JP CC BB BB LK BB BB BB CC JP CC D
BB_Deep = ocean, ~sky
BB_sabbath = rest, = 7?
JP_link together Saturn, Sabbath & Babylon
BB_Ugarit Schaffer 13th century BC final destruction layers
BB_Ark was not worshiped
<LK--God dwelled between the angels on the Ark = electricity - pacificcog.org/studypapers/HeWhoDwellsBetweenTheCherubim.pdf - In the Old Testament both the LORD of Hosts and the God of Israel are identified with the phrase “dwells between the cherubim”. This phrase is used 7 different times in the Old Testament (1 Samuel 4:4; 2 Samuel 6:2; 2 Kings 19:15; 1 Chronicles 13:6; Psalms 80:1; Psalms 99:1; Isaiah 37:16).>
<LK--Does bible say angels or cherubim had wings? Wings = comet?>
<LK--What are Hebrew terms relating to angels etc?>
JP_SH-B-T rest/cease, SH-B-' oath/seven
JP_no days prior to 'day one'
*CC_Atum = formless creator god > Aten = Adon
*CC_shab'aten > Shabbat if shab'aten was illegal
<Dec 24, 2019 9:54 am
9. www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=17502&start=120
JP NC JP LK CC JP YD LK NC JP JP BB BB Y JP
JP_Velik shows Amenhotep III at time of Ahab
JP_Cardona said Thornhill said Earth orbited Saturn
LK_CRITICAL RE-APPRAISAL OF THE BOOK OF GENESIS
CC_pharaoh = God
JP_Hebrew < Akkadian cuneiform
YD_Middle Eastern dating & dark ages
LK_C14 dating supports conventional chronology
NC_C14 dating adjustments are biased, see The Extinction of the Mammoth
JP_C14 dating errors
JP_Hebrew words suggestive of catastrophism www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=17502&start=120#p129598
Y_water canopy around planets
JP_canopy = plasmasphere, which were involved in cataclysms
<Dec 26, 2019 8:56 pm
10. www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=17502&start=135
Y LK LK CC JP Y Y LK
*LK_Cochrane's articles vs revised chronologies
LK_Questions re Atenism
*CC_Aten ~= winged sun disk, which originated ca 2600BC (p531 oi.uchicago.edu/sites/oi.uchicago.edu/files/uploads/shared/docs/SHONKWILERDISSERTATION.pdf
JP_4,000,000+ petroglyphs worldwide detailing plasma phenomena
Y_Reasons to doubt C14 dating
LK_Comments on JP’s shared Hebrew terms
www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13
Creationism, Myths & Catastrophism FIRST THREAD SUMMARY (Second Thread Summary in Next Post)
(from www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=17502 )
(I show below the thread page numbers followed by a line of the initials of the posters, followed by lines that start with the initials of posters and then mention their important points, and the last line for each page shows the date of the last post on the page.)
<Nov 27, 2019 10:54 am
1. www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=17502
LK LK LK M LK JP M JP BB JP BB BB BB JP LK
JP_Gen 15:12 & 37:9 [sun plausibly =] "Saturn" [moon =] "Crescent"
*LK_Mike Fischer's rapid continental drift
*LK_Baumgardner's Noah's Flood
LK_plan to compare catastrophist models.
LK_strata.
*LK_Floods to strata.
*JP_Berthault on Stratification
JP_Tas Walker's typical Biblical Geological Model
JP_JP' model: Baumgartner on tidal-waves, but caused by Earth orbiting Saturn, & linear Saturn system at mid-point of the flood (Gen 8:2-4) until ~700 BCE
LK_"Great Deep" = sky
--<BB_= ocean>
JP_bible resources
LK_"Torah Historicity"
LK_shamash links
JP_Cre'sa "very good" Gen 1:31 & no death at Gen 3:19 = no cataclysmic events before Genesis 7
BB_void = preliminary condition for creation
JP_6200 years since creation, but pre-Flood day and year length unknown
JP_All welcome to comment on hyperlinks
LK_maybe Earth = apparition in the sky & "deep" = sky & "face" = Saturn configuration
<Nov 30, 2019 8:20 pm
2. www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=17502&start=15
JP LK BB JP BB JP BB LK YD LK JP LK CC KC JP
LK_"Torah Historicity" Chronology at qdl.scs-inc.us/?top=6883
JP_CC's chronology messes up Christ's genealogy
BB_second verse of Genesis led > event which led > utter chaos
LK_"God" ~= Creator, "Earth" ~= our planet, "created" ~= from nothing
CC_Jesus' genealogy < 2nd Temple < King Josiah < 1st Temple maybe not verbatim
M_Moses' model: [strata] before ice ages, Noah's flood after
LK_Moses' catastrophist model at [ futureschool.boards.net/post/30/thread
M_Moses' model [not] < Thornhill
JP_Earth, Venus and Mars were in polar axial alignment with Saturn's poles
--<LK_??? Then how could Earth have orbited Saturn?>
JP_electrical discharge machining is missing piece of creationis[m]
JP_Mount St Helens strata, Electrical discharge machining, separate events of deposition
JP_Berthault's & Andrew Hall's ionic winds & Fossilisation = [short times]
BB_link to fossilized wire
JP_Saturnian Configuration is plausible
<Dec 02, 2019 10:02 pm
3. www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=17502&start=15
BB M JP LK CC M JP YD CC MX JP JP CC BB BB
JP_JEDPR analysis debunked
LK_CC's model < archeological findings
CC_Saturn theory conflicts with bible, but bible has catastrophist thread, evidence meteoric airburst over Dead Sea >> Sodom & Gomorrah
CC_bible's contradictions < redactors or divine intervention
*CC_dinosaurs [couldn’t live now]; atmosphere was a lot thicker? KT impact caused dramatic reduction in atmospheric buoyancy; affected vulcanism, flood basalts
JP_list of Hebrew words for all planets to Saturn
JP_Jesus criticized not second temple but Sadducees
JP_no explicit Saturnian imagery in bible, but many places deductable
JP_Josephus wrote re Christ
JP_editorial comments in Torah = glosses
YD_new religions formed worldwide 600 or 700 BC, no new Gods, see Irving Wolfe
CC_Deuteronomic History is probable fact
JP_maybe people could live to 900 before the flood as the world was different, maybe with a proto-Saturn 'mist' and plasmaspheric warming, Shang Dynasty reported longevity
JP_six days in Genesis
BB_God made two great lights. Gen 1:16 vs. Psalms
<Dec 07, 2019 4:23 pm
4. www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=17502&start=45
BB PM JP LK BB BB JP BB BB M JP LK BB PM LK
JP_author of Psalm 136 misunderstood Genesis 1:14-16
JP_"two great lights" of Genesis hints at a different sky in the past
BB_Gen 1:16 and Psalm 136:7-9 are two different types of literature, a historical account and a hymn, where planets and stars receive little emphasis
JP_there are no definite articles in the Hebrew of Ps 136:7: "You made great lights..."
JP_that passage is of critical importance to rebut creationists re Saturn theory
LK_CC/EDM
*LK_Charles explained craters formed by impacts at
www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=884&hilit=charleschandler+edm&start=135
<Dec 11, 2019 11:36 am
5. www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=17502&start=60
BB LK BB BB BB NC JP JP YD NC BB BB BB NC JP
BB_circumstantial evidence in Gen 1-11 for extraordinarily different conditions on earth: gigantism, long lifespans, mass extincion; appearance of rainbows; geographical barriers; loss of original language
LK_QUESTIONS: archeological evidence; Hebrew words for terms relevant to catastrophism
NC_The Many Faces of Venus by Ev Cochrane: www.maverickscience.com/the-many-faces-of-venus/
JP_8674 words in the entire Hebrew Scriptures [minus] 2,415 proper names = 6,259 words
JP_JP's catastrophist model
JP_*see re Mt. St. Helens creation.com/lessons-from-mount-st-helens re sedimentary deposition;
Canyons; Grooves cut in bedrock; Coal formation; polystrate tree fossils; Radioisotope dating
*YD_King List some 2400 years ago is oldest historical document; Sumerian sources 2000 BC
*YD_close agreement on the lifespans between Sumerian texts, the Bible and King List
YD_Hindu and Chinese said 9 patriarchs before the flood;
YD_read Bishop Ussher's Annals of the World
NC_"barad" in Worlds in Collision on p 55 as meteorites or hot rocks
NC_need comparative analysis
BB_terms for all celestial bodies in Deuteronomy 4:19
JP_Velikovsky has copious footnotes on various Hebrew words from p.207 ff Worlds in Collision
<Dec 13, 2019 9:12 pm
6. www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=17502&start=75
BB BB BB LK PM BB BB BB LK JP BB BB WM LK JP
BB_It was fiery hail _There is a verse which uses "evan" /stones and "barad"/hail as parallel terms for the same event, in which rocks fell from heaven Ex 9
PM_bible < Sumerian myths
PM_rapid continental drift < centrifugal force, mountains < weak rock, no subduction
PM_PM's model: Earth is much younger than 6,000 years; [no] rapid continental drift; Bolides could not [hit] planet(s); “craters” < planetary lightning; super continent broke < centrifugal force; local history = bible
PM_PM's model: meant to say earth could be older, but present terrain Could be 2-3 thousand years old; the continents broke up to where they are now in a day or so; people were scattered with the land masses; oldest book drew upon Sumerian myths
BB_petroglyphs around the world match plasma formations in the lab; pre-literate people's myths were replete with references to electricity, thunderbolts, and catastrophic events
BB_Cyrus Cylinder
BB_Important to physically test the historical ideas in catastrophism with field work and SEM testing
BB_events Old Testament not in cultural vacuum
BB_law code of Hammurabi compare with law code of Moses
BB_caste societies
WM_old testament vs new testament
<Dec 17, 2019 7:11 pm
7. www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=17502&start=90
LK LK BB BB BB BB JP BB NC LK JP CC LK CC BB
LK_interesting Hebrew words
LK_Great Deep
JP_analysis of Hebrew words associated with catastrophism; Benner's Ancient Hebrew Lexicon
JP_some Hebrew words relevant to catastrophism
NC_everything in the sky was a star and a god
LK_"Atenism & Early Judaism" at qdl.scs-inc.us/2ndParty/Pages/8232.html
JP_Adonai for YHWH
*<LK--Adonai = Aten? = Venus comet enclosure>
CC_similarities in Atenism & Early Judaism
CC_Abraham came before both Moses & Akhenaten
LK_TB team ~agree w Ages in Chaos
CC_Aten = Athena
<Dec 21, 2019 3:37 pm
8. www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=17502&start=105
BB CC BB JP CC BB BB LK BB BB BB CC JP CC D
BB_Deep = ocean, ~sky
BB_sabbath = rest, = 7?
JP_link together Saturn, Sabbath & Babylon
BB_Ugarit Schaffer 13th century BC final destruction layers
BB_Ark was not worshiped
<LK--God dwelled between the angels on the Ark = electricity - pacificcog.org/studypapers/HeWhoDwellsBetweenTheCherubim.pdf - In the Old Testament both the LORD of Hosts and the God of Israel are identified with the phrase “dwells between the cherubim”. This phrase is used 7 different times in the Old Testament (1 Samuel 4:4; 2 Samuel 6:2; 2 Kings 19:15; 1 Chronicles 13:6; Psalms 80:1; Psalms 99:1; Isaiah 37:16).>
<LK--Does bible say angels or cherubim had wings? Wings = comet?>
<LK--What are Hebrew terms relating to angels etc?>
JP_SH-B-T rest/cease, SH-B-' oath/seven
JP_no days prior to 'day one'
*CC_Atum = formless creator god > Aten = Adon
*CC_shab'aten > Shabbat if shab'aten was illegal
<Dec 24, 2019 9:54 am
9. www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=17502&start=120
JP NC JP LK CC JP YD LK NC JP JP BB BB Y JP
JP_Velik shows Amenhotep III at time of Ahab
JP_Cardona said Thornhill said Earth orbited Saturn
LK_CRITICAL RE-APPRAISAL OF THE BOOK OF GENESIS
CC_pharaoh = God
JP_Hebrew < Akkadian cuneiform
YD_Middle Eastern dating & dark ages
LK_C14 dating supports conventional chronology
NC_C14 dating adjustments are biased, see The Extinction of the Mammoth
JP_C14 dating errors
JP_Hebrew words suggestive of catastrophism www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=17502&start=120#p129598
Y_water canopy around planets
JP_canopy = plasmasphere, which were involved in cataclysms
<Dec 26, 2019 8:56 pm
10. www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=17502&start=135
Y LK LK CC JP Y Y LK
*LK_Cochrane's articles vs revised chronologies
LK_Questions re Atenism
*CC_Aten ~= winged sun disk, which originated ca 2600BC (p531 oi.uchicago.edu/sites/oi.uchicago.edu/files/uploads/shared/docs/SHONKWILERDISSERTATION.pdf
JP_4,000,000+ petroglyphs worldwide detailing plasma phenomena
Y_Reasons to doubt C14 dating
LK_Comments on JP’s shared Hebrew terms