CHRONOLOGY

CHRONOLOGY

(Add these:)
C.18._MY TENTATIVE DATING OF CHAPTER TITLES IN CARDONA'S BOOKS; CARDONA'S MISDATING;
C.23._COMMENTS ON PREVIOUS POST REGARDING EARTH HISTORY SUMMARY:

www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=17502#p129219
__WHICH PLANETOIDS DID WHAT?
(I use the term planetoid to mean any large natural object from outer space.)
_The Saturn Theory and the Polar Configuration model are interesting to me, but not my main interest. It's obvious that global cataclysms occurred a few thousand years ago and determining in detail how those events occurred is my main interest. So I want to find out which bodies and events were responsible for which cataclysms.
_GREAT FLOOD. John Baumgardner's paper on Noah's Flood does an excellent job explaining how the Great Flood occurred. It must have involved a large body orbiting the Earth for about half a year on an elliptical orbit, so that the body made its closest approach for a few days about once a month. The close approaches raised huge tides that deposited each megasequence of sediments from the seafloor and continental shelf onto the former supercontinent. As the body receded on its orbit the tidal waves diminished and receding flood waters washed away much of the upper layers of the sediments by sheet erosion, except in the many basin areas. The orbiting body made close approaches to Earth about 6 times in all, leaving about 6 megasequences of rock strata on the supercontinent. The supercontinent was then struck by a large asteroid that split it up into continents and moved some of them (i.e. the Americas, Australia, Antarctica etc) a few thousand kilometers away within days (rapid continental drift: See NewGeology.us ), which event also formed mountain chains etc.
_FLOOD CAUSE? The question is, which body was orbiting the Earth, raising tidal waves about once a month during close approaches? And where did it come from and what happened to it? The first guess would be that it was the Moon that was on an elliptical orbit at that time. The Saturn Theory suggests that the Moon was previously possibly a moon of Saturn and when the Saturn system broke up about 5,000 years ago the Moon was captured by the Earth. Robert Driscoll suggested that the planetoids of the Saturn system may have been on elliptical orbits around the Sun upon the breakup of the Saturn system, but that hydrogen gas H2 in the solar system from a Saturn nova or brown dwarf flare put drag on the planetoids and allowed their orbits to circularize quickly. In the case of the Moon its orbit apparently circularized in 6 months to a year or so. But the Moon isn't the only candidate for the role of the Flood cause. Other bodies in the Saturn system also appear to have made close encounters with the Earth during the breakup, namely Venus, Mars and possibly other bodies. So any of them may have been the orbiting body that caused the Flood. I have a file on Venus as a possible cause of the Great Flood too.

www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=17502&sid=e9a90c1e46ed56e52ff50fded5b05b62&start=15#p129257
_My friend, Charles Chandler, has done a lot of research on the Torah, which he calls "Torah Historicity" at
qdl.scs-inc.us/?top=5675 . Here's part of his Introduction.
_"The Torah just doesn't fit that pattern [of other legends - LK]. Clearly, the Jewish scribes were not given such poetic license, and were rather expected to leave the stories as close to the originals as possible. Without the entertainment value, the massive effort was motivated entirely by the conviction that they were preserving real testimony, which of course isn't always poetic, and which sometimes contradicts itself, but which nevertheless has to be transcribed as given. If we are to think like detectives, we shouldn't conclude that conflicting reports constitute reason to believe that the whole thing was made up — rather, a good detective suspects fabrication when all of the reports are too consistent. So the historicity of the Torah remains an open question, inconsistencies and all. If we are to discern what actually happened (if anything), we have to study the reports carefully, and we have to compare them to independently obtained information, especially the archaeological evidence."
_I think he did a very good job of possibly uncovering the real history of the Israelites and Hebrews (2 different peoples). He finds a lot of good evidence in secular archeology which supports the "actual" history that he found, which is considerably different from others' conclusions. E.g., Abraham and Sarah were half siblings and were both royalty. I believe his reasoning is superior to most others. Any comments? Here's his Chronology, which can give an idea of where he differs with others:
qdl.scs-inc.us/?top=6883

www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=17502&start=30#p129302
_JP Michael said: @charles Chandler
_A cursory reading of your reply leads me to suppose that you lean heavily on the theories of Wellhausen's Documentary Hypothesis (Jawist-Elohist-Deuteronomist-Priestly-Redakteur -- JEDPR) in order to support late editorial authorship of the Hebrew Scriptures, especially of the Book of Deuteronomy in the time of King Josiah. This theory has been so thoroughly debunked elsewhere I do not feel the need to write extensively against it here.[1] If you have an alternate view to that of Wellhausen and his ilk, please explain it or direct me to your website where you do explain it.
_While I will not deny periods of editorial work upon the Torah and the Writings, most of the editorial work seemed to have been explanatory glosses, eg. Gen 12:6; 14:14; 36:31; 1 Sam 2:12-14; 9:9; Ruth 4:7, in order to culturally enlighten later audiences to earlier practices, names or peoples/kings. Proponents of JEDPR and similar textual reconstructions consistently fail to deal with the Scripture's internal testimony of Mosaic authorship of the entire Torah at the time of the Exodus and the following 40 years of wandering in the deserts of Arabia. [2]

www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=17502&start=30#p129343
_JP Michael said: CharlesChandler wrote: "...those subscribing to the Documentary Hypothesis acknowledge the existence, and significance, of earlier documents, with J & E getting dated to the 1st Temple Period."
_Notwithstanding that such 'documents' have 0 evidence in reality other than the mental scissors of 20th century Torah scholarship, cutting and pasting the extant and attested text howsoever they see fit to force it to obey their JEDPR hypothesis! :lol:
_CharlesChandler wrote: "At this point, I'm taking all of the historical details from the Torah and the Deuteronomic History to be rooted in fact, unless they're just not physically possible. For example, Noah was said to have been 500 years old when he fathered Shem, which wouldn't seem to be biologically possible. So I leave Noah & Shem on the timeline, to be as true as possible to the original text, but I reduce the age to 50 years old, just to have a number that's possible."
_I would like to highlight what I perceive as a uniformitarian imposition upon the ante-deluvian world here, and this brings this thread right back around to one of the cores of the discussion: catastrophism vs. uniformity.
_When you suggest it is "not physically possible" for a human to live to 900+, are you not imposing the physical restrictions of our current world, current climate, current medicine, current sky, back on theirs? Isn't the whole point of EU reconstruction to reconsider this slavish obeisance to uniformitarian dogma and forcing our current world back onto historical times? Has this not been the central fundamental error which eliminated the mythohistorical record as a critical line of important evidence supporting the catastrophic challenge, that their world, their sky, their earth, was radically different to our own and we should not just keep imposing what we know now back upon what they claimed then? In my mind, the question isn't "Is it physically possible to live to 900 now?" (No!), but "Was it possible to live to 900 in Noah's ante-deluvian world which was radically different to our own, both in sky and earth and everything that entails?"
_This is where I believe Thornhill and McLachlan have a strong case about the postulated plasmapheric reflection of proto-Saturn's light, the encasing 'mist' of water (which the Bible indeed mentions as a characteristic of the ante-deluvian age, Gen 2:5-6), and the overall ideal conditions for plant (and by extension, animal) life at the time. That the earth was covered in abundant, lush vegetation in the past is clearly evident from the copious amount of hydrocarbon fossils found in sedimentary geology now (ie, coal deposits worldwide), enormous insects, mammals and dinosaur fossils that we do not see today (eg. meganeura, megafauna), in addition to evidence extracted from Siberian/Alaskan woolly mammoths prior to whatever icy disaster snap froze them in what is now the artic circle with sub-tropical plants between their teeth.
_By rejecting the dogma of uniformity, all of a sudden one is opened to a realm of biological and astronomical research to determine whether plasmaspheric reflection warmed the globe and standardized the climate to such a state that it promoted 900+ year lifespans (which is, in my opinion, the reasons dinosaurs, insects and animals grew so large in the past: they were 900 years old too), instead of being shut down by a falsified a-priori assumption, "The present is key to the past." I am astounded at how much modern thinking is plagued by this single, parroted ditty, especially by members of this forum who really ought to know better.
_One simply cannot argue, on the basis of human longevity today, that human longevity could not have been different in the past. The conditions of earth and sky then were clearly radically different, so much so that it has, I believe, a clear reflection in human longevity by a factor of 10.
_Once again I find the authentic testimony of the ancient Hebrew scriptures reflecting this awesome truth: their world was not anything like our world. Theirs was truly a Golden Age, one we will never fully comprehend because we were not there to experience it. All we have are a handful of extant Hebrew texts and associated mythohistorical accounts in other cultures describing the wonder of that age. Yet the ancient Hebrews are so accurate, they even chronicle the drop-off in human longevity post-Flood (Gen 11:10-32), exactly as we would expect if the Earth had undergone a monumental alteration in its climate-biome due to a sudden, world-destroying catastrophe. This testimony is reflected in other mythohistorical sources, such as those of the Chinese Shang Dynasty emperors, so it is far from alone in its claims.
_Genuine scholarship will begin when we begin to respect their world according to their terms and desist from imposing our supposedly 'modern and superior' understanding of human longevity, or any other uniformitarian "present key to the past" assumption, back on their recorded history.

www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=17502&start=135#p129610
__CHRONOLOGY, REVISE OR NOT
_I'm open-minded mostly. I used to study Velikovsky's revised chronology and later Donavan Courville's etc. But more recently I learned that the Thunderbolts team seems to support mostly conventional chronology, except maybe for minor revisions, like Centuries of Darkness, I think by Peter James. And they seem to use good reasoning. Below are 4 articles by Ev Cochrane, that I think are important. I included a couple of quotes. The astronomical retrocalculations seem to prove pretty certainly that many claims of conventional history are correct, back at least to 400 or so BC so far. I welcome further discussion. Dating methods are somewhat unreliable, but some are fairly reliable, like retrocalculation, at least if we don't go back too far, to when the Saturn system broke up, if that or something similar happened. C14 seems to be more reliable than other radiometric methods, but I hope we can find the flaws and fix them.
__Astronomical Retrocalculations and Chronology
www.maverickscience.com/astronomical-retrocalculations-and-chronology/
_Having traced solar eclipse observations back well over two thousand years, we have found a striking accord between the ancient observations and modern retrocalculations. It follows from this finding that the historical reconstructions offered by Heinsohn, Marx, Illig, Whelton and others–in which several or more centuries are to be deleted during the past 2500 years–are untenable.
__A review of Charles Ginenthal’s book Pillars of the Past
www.maverickscience.com/wp-content/uploads/Pillars-of-the-Past-Ginenthal.pdf
_1 David Rohl, Pharoah’s and Kings (New York, 1995), p. 402, otherwise sympathetic to Velikovsky’s cause, had this to say of the latter’s habit of making one or another ruler the alter ego of another: “So, Velikovsky turned Seti I of the 19th Dynasty into Psamtek I of the 26th Dynasty and likewise Ramses II into Neko II. Even the most accommodating scholars found this methodology totally unacceptable and the archaeological evidence was wholly against such equations. Getting himself deeper and deeper into trouble he then equated Ramses III of the 20th Dynasty with Nectanebo I of the 30th Dynasty. In the end his whole thesis degenerated into farce with dynasties leapfrogging over each other in their undignified clamour towards the Hellenistic Age.”
__Information on Dr. Heinsohn’s historical revisions (Gunnar Heinsohn criticism - Maverick Science)
www.maverickscience.com/wp-content/uploads/Gunnar-Heinsohn-criticism.pdf
__The science of astronomical retrocalculations; How it impacts the radical chronologies
www.maverickscience.com/wp-content/uploads/Retrocalculations.pdf

www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13#p227
_I think it's worth compiling a list of major findings in catastrophism. So here 'tis.
__MAJOR FINDINGS IN CATASTROPHISM
_1950 Velikovsky found that ancient myths appear to have been based on real events, i.e. large-scale cataclysms, caused by planets, comets and other objects from outer space, especially Mars and Venus.
_1980 Dave Talbott, like Velikovsky, found from myths that Earth was apparently a satellite of Saturn a few thousand years ago and was part of the Saturn system, along with Mars and Venus.
_ … Some Creationists (like Ian Taylor?) found that sedimentary rock strata were apparently mostly deposited by Noah's Flood.
_1992 Mike Fischer found that continental drift was apparently caused by an asteroid impact on the former supercontinent shortly after Noah's Flood, which also caused formation of mountain ranges.
_ … Guy Berthault did experiments that showed that sedimentary strata are formed by floods.
_ … John Baumgardner found that Noah's Flood likely was caused by a large object on an elliptical orbit around Earth, which produced tidal forces at perigee that caused megatsunamis that deposited the sedimentary rock strata in 6 megasequences at something like monthly intervals for a 6 month period or so.
_ … Charles Ginenthal on ancient maps and ice sheet flooding.
_ … Charles Chandler on electrical formation of stars, planets etc.
_ … I found that rock strata must have formed rapidly, instead of gradually.
_ … Mike Fischer reported on C14 dating of dinosaur bones, showing 20,000 to 40,000 years old.
_There are plenty more to add, but I'll try to later this week.

www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=240#p2738
__MY FORMER SUMMARY OF EARTH HISTORY
__Earth Chronology
milesmathis.forumotion.com/t73-earth-chronology
_Dec 25, 2014
_I doubt now that much physical evidence exists from before the Great Flood of about 5,000 years ago. So I now need to rethink the Age of Darkness. The Golden Age before the Flood still seems likely, despite the scarcity of physical evidence.
__Earth Chronology
1a. [Origin: Age of Darkness. - DC] [Saturn, Earth, Mars and Venus - EU] [formed by electrical accretion - CC] [outside the solar system - EU.]
1b- [Earth trailed behind comet Saturn as both moved toward the solar system in the Age of Darkness. - DC]
1c- [Earth had oceans and ocean life evolved. - CC]
1d- [ A granite planetoid collided with Earth and became a granite supercontinent. - CC]
1e- [Life evolved rapidly on the supercontinent. - GW?]
1f- [*Sedimentary rock developed on top of the supercontinent from floods - SD] [or Saturn flare detritus. - DC]
1g- [Earth's gravity was weak, - EU] [or its atmosphere was thick, - FJ] [so megafauna and megaflora were able to grow. - EU,FJ,TH]
2a. [Golden Age 10,000 ya. Saturn flared up when it entered the heliosphere. - DC]
2b- [Earth lost atmosphere or buoyancy, which killed off the megafauna and megaflora. - FJ]
2c- [This ended the Age of Darkness. - DC]
2d- [When the flaring ended, Venus was first visible on the face of Saturn and Mars on the face of Venus. - DC]
2e- [This means Venus, Mars and Earth were trailing behind Saturn in that order. - DC]
2f- [And the Sun was then first visible as a distant star, which lit up the Saturn system. - DC]
2g- [This began the Golden Age of Saturn. - DC]
2h- [Saturn entered the Kuiper belt and disturbed some of the planetoids. - DC]
3a. [Breakup & Ice Age 5,000 ya. When the Saturn system reached Saturn's present orbit, its 3 trailing planets fell away. - DC]
3b- [Venus became comet-like. - EU, DC]
3c- [Mars encountered the proto-Moon and other objects, leaving craters and rilles on all of them. - EU,CC]
3d- [One large object hit Mars and removed its northern hemisphere surface. - CC]
3e- [Vulcanism formed the Mars shield volcanoes. - CC]
3f- [The Mars canyon formed by rifting and torrential rains, which formed an ocean. - CC]
3g- [Collision debris formed asteroids. - EU?]
3h- [The proto-Moon became Earth's satellite. - DC]
3m- [An asteroid hit Earth's supercontinent, breaking it up and driving the continents apart. - SD]
3n- [*The sliding continents developed mountain ranges and suffered great flooding. - SD,DC]
3o- [As Earth tumbled, the solar wind penetrated close to Earth's surface. - RV]
3p- [Plasmoids in the sky looked like Suns sometimes moving in the wrong direction. - RV]
3q- [Mammoths etc died in Arctic regions from suffocation by dust and from flash freezing. - WB]
3r- [Earth suffered an Ice Age - WB,SD] [as it left the orbit of Saturn and settled into its present orbit, while Mars and Venus also settled into their new orbits. - DC]
4a. [Civilization 4,000 ya. Ancient civilizations developed in Sumeria, Egypt and China. - All]
4b- [There was so much dust in the inner solar system that the Sun and planets appeared reddish. - GG]
4c- [Gradually the space dust mostly cleared out about 2,000 ya. - GG]
Authors
DC: Dwardu Cardona
EU: Dave Talbott, Wal Thornhill, Dwardu Cardona, Ev Cochrane ...
CC: Charles Chandler
GW: Gordon Webb
SD: Shock Dynamics
FJ: Fred Juenemann
TH: Ted Holden
RV: Rens VanderSluijs
WB: Walter Brown
GG: Gary Gilligan

www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=255#p2772
__MORE THINKING ON EARTH'S CATACLYSMIC HISTORY
__AGE OF DARKNESS
_Cardona said some ancient myths say there was initially an Age of Darkness before a Golden Age and that the Sun was first seen as a dim red star. If Earth had a thick atmosphere, that would have made the Sun dimmer and redder, but there would not then likely have been an Age of great Darkness. Venus' atmosphere is 90 times denser than Earth's present atmosphere and Earth probably didn't have nearly as thick an atmosphere as Venus. Since there is not darkness on Venus in the daytime, it probably was not dark on Earth in the daytime, if it was at its present orbit.
_There's a comparison of the size of the Sun as seen from all of the planets at www.foundalis.com/ast/sunview.htm
It looks like Earth would have to be at the orbit of Jupiter or farther in order to be in an age of darkness.
__SATURN MYTHS
_Cardona, Talbott et al have found good evidence from comparative mythology that the ancients about 4,000 years ago said Saturn was the first and best Sun. But that was during the Golden Age. See www.saturniancosmology.org/files/thoth/ . The older mythology suggested that Saturn, Venus and Mars appeared constantly in the sky at the north polar axis. Mars appeared on the face of Venus and Venus on the face of Saturn. So Cardona et al concluded that at that time Venus, Mars and Earth were trailing behind Saturn as the system was spiraling in toward the Sun from the edge of the solar system. Cardona compared the movement of the system to that of the pieces of the SL-9 comet that moved linearly in single file in orbit until they crashed into Jupiter in 1994. Saturn was bright at night, possibly due to light from the Sun, like our full moons now, but Saturn was dim in the daytime because of competition from sunlight. Earth's rotation made the Sun appear to come up in the morning and go down at night, but since Saturn & co. were at the north polar axis, they were always visible form the northern hemisphere.
_Before the Golden Age some of the ancients said there was the Age of Darkness. At that time only Saturn was visible and it looked like a dim red glow worm. The Golden Age began immediately after a Saturn flare-up, when Saturn became bright and Venus and Mars became visible on its face. As the system gradually got closer to the Sun it became brighter at night, again like the full moon.
__SATURN SYSTEM ORIGIN
_The Saturn system likely formed from the same galactic filament that formed the Sun. The system either came from outside the solar system, or was on an elliptical orbit whose aphelion was beyond Jupiter's orbit and perihelion was near Earth's or Venus' present orbit.
__SATURN FLARE-UPS
_A granite asteroid collided with Earth and formed the supercontinent Pangaea long before the Golden Age. The Saturn flare-up occurred just beyond the orbit of Jupiter when Saturn entered the electrical heliospheric current sheet or something similar. The Golden Age must have lasted at least several centuries, so the aphelion must have been close to the present orbit of Pluto.
_Another Saturn flare-up led to the Great Flood about 4,500 years ago. And the final flare-up occurred during the Younger Dryas impact event about 4,300 years ago. That's when Mars, then Earth, and finally Venus broke away from the Saturn system near their present orbits as Saturn was approaching perihelion. Saturn then returned to its more distant present orbit. Jupiter may have taken Saturn's place temporarily. Also, Jupiter may have been part of the Saturn system as well, possibly in the lead position, but not visible due to being on the other side of Saturn.
_So now I have 3 Saturn flare-ups a few hundred years apart, one to start the Golden Age, one to initiate the Great Flood, and one to end the Saturn system.

www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=255#p2806
__PHASES OF CATACLYSMS
_The phases seem to be 1) a) Saturn Flare-up and b) Bombardment and c) Great Flood and d) Continental Drift; 2) Ice Age; 3) a) Saturn Flare-up and b) Saturn System Breakup and c) Younger Dryas Event.

www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=270#p2855
__[TIMELINE VISUALS]
_I'm thinking of posting pics on my private forum and then linking to them here.
_I'm working on it a little here: futureschool.boards.net/post/107/thread

www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=315#p3141
__THREAD HIGHLIGHTS
_I'm trying to reorganize main topics of this thread, so I can find info better. The unorganized version is here: futureschool.boards.net/thread/29/creationism-myth-catastrophism-thread-index
(Numbers below refer to Thread page numbers. E.g. this is page 22.)
__MAJOR FINDINGS
1. MAJOR FINDINGS IN CATASTROPHISM www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13
__EARTH HISTORY
12. COMMENTS ON CARDONA'S MODEL www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=165
18. EARTH'S CATACLYSMIC HISTORY www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=255
19. EARTH HISTORY www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=270
21. FOUR SATURN FLARES www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=300
__CARDONA'S MODEL
13. www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=180
__PREHISTORY
3. MOON'S ORIGIN www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=30
18. SUPERCONTINENT ORIGIN; DATING SHOCK DYNAMICS; CARDONA'S MISDATING www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=255
20. PRESENT MOON REPLACED FORMER MOON www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=285
21. TWO MOONS www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=300
__FLOOD
4. CRATER FORMATION www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=45
9. MORE ON CRATER FORMATION www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=120
13. SEDIMENTARY ROCK STRATA FORMATION; ORIGIN OF CRUSTAL RADIOACTIVITY; C14 DATING & RADIOACTIVE FOSSILS www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=180
17. FLOOD ERRATICS; IMPACTS; FLOOD RAIN; DENSER ATMOSPHERE; DISEASE www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=240
20. IMPACTS DURING THE GREAT FLOOD www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=285
__GOLDEN AGE
6. DATING GOBEKLI TEPE www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=75
10. ANCIENT CIVILIZATION www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=135
14. ANCIENT MAPS FRAUD? www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=195
20. TIAHUANACO www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=285
21. GOLDEN AGE www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=300
__MYTHS
1. THE BIBLE AND ANCIENT MYTHS (Links) www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13
12. Creation myths are post-Deluge www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=165
18. BIBLE FALLIBILITY; AGE OF UNIVERSE; BEFORE AND AFTER GENESIS CREATION www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=255
20. MYTHS WERE POST-FLOOD www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=285
__SATURN FLARES
14. TWO SATURN FLAREUPS www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=195
15. SATURN FLARE-UPS & COAL FORMATION www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=210
16. HYDROCARBONS ORIGIN; ORIGIN OF LOESS, MUCK; COSMIC METALS; COMETARY DEBRIS; GLACIAL ESKERS www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=225
17. SATURN FLARES; FLARE DEBRIS www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=240
19. SATURN'S RINGS & ITS HOUSE www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=270
20. IRON-60 FROM SATURN NOVA?; SATURN NOVA EJECTA www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=285
__YOUNGER DRYAS CATACLYSMS
20. YOUNGER DRYAS CONFLAGRATION www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=285
21. ANCIENT ARCTIC BIOLOGY; FLARE-UP HEAT WAVE TO FREEZING; CARDONA'S ONSLAUGHT OF ICE; SUPERCOOLING; GLOBAL COOLING ABOUT 2300 BC; SUDDEN ARCTIC FREEZING; NORTH POLAR VORTEX; POLAR COLUMN; THE ARCTIC DEPRESSION; YOUNGER DRYAS DUST STORMS www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=300
22. ARCTIC FLASH FREEZE OR NOT; SATURN HEAT & COLD BLASTS; FLASH FREEZING; HUMANS HUNTED MAMMOTHS? www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=315

www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=330#p3220
__MYTHIC CLUES TO CATASTROPHIST CHRONOLOGY
_In my notes on Talbott's article, From Myth to a Physical Model in Aeon magazine III:3 (Oct 1993), I said Venus stole Mars' atmosphere & oceans, but I don't see that Talbott actually mentioned oceans, so I guess I was just thinking that, if it was close enough to take away most of Mars' atmosphere, maybe the waters of Mars were also taken. He said an ancient image shows Venus with an oval shape, which he suspected was due to Venus drawing from Mars most of its atmosphere. He said the cloud of gas and dust from Mars is important to the evolution of the Saturn system. I suspect that Mars' loss of atmosphere occurred near the time of the Younger Dryas event, shortly before or after Saturn flared up for the last time.
_My notes on the article also say the ancients showed Jupiter with bands. That means Jupiter was likely close enough for the ancients to see its bands. And that means Jupiter must have been hiding behind Saturn until Saturn left the Saturn system. If Jupiter was part of it, it might someday have to be renamed the Jupiter system, or the Jupiter-Saturn system. I can't readily find an ancient image of Jupiter with bands, but this one shows the swirling forms visible in Jupiter's bands: ancientreasures.com/products/ancient-roman-god-jupiter-head-fragment-home-decor
Maybe there's a good image here: www.google.com/search?q=ancient+jupiter+god+garment [under Images]
_In the section, "The Surprising Coherence of Myth", Talbott said in his early encounters with ancient myths "the mass of random details didn't even look interesting", but gradually he "could see distinctive patterns that simply couldn't be explained away" and the more confident he became that something incredible happened. He then provided "some general observations on the character of world mythology, noting a few of the 'anomalous' facts one must confront in seeking an explanation of myth as a whole." I list them here.
1. No recurring mythical theme is explained by the present celestial order.
2. There is no evidence that early man was a fabricator in the sense commonly assumed.
3. Recurring mythical themes are almost certainly prehistoric.
4. All myths are associated with "the age of the gods."
5. The gods are no longer present.
6. Through storytelling over time, the gods are brought down to earth.
7. The first civilizations arose from attempts to celebrate or recapture the age of the gods. "In the upward movement of early civilizations, one does not discover the introduction of new prototypes or a new vision, only more ambitious, larger-scale, and more fully elaborated expressions of the original prototype."
_He then listed some "clearly universal mythical themes", but "only a few of hundreds": i.e. Age of the gods; Golden Age; Creator-King; Heaven; One-eyed God; Cosmic Temple, Cosmic City; World Mountain; Superior sun, central sun [i.e. Saturn]; Goddess [Venus]; Warrior Hero [Mars]; Consort of Queens and Princesses [Mars]; Sword-God [Mars]; Four rivers = four streams of light, or four winds = Four pillars; Dying or Displaced God [Saturn]; World Catastrophe; Ill-Omened Comet [Venus]; Raging or Lamenting Goddess [Venus]; Serpent-Dragon [Venus]; Star of the Heart-Soul [Venus]. He said not one of these themes "explains itself or answers to any known or observable experience, though each theme seems to have established itself on every continent. ... How has it happened that, at the level of universal myth, all references point to unrecognized experiences?" In the section, "Confusion through Localization", he suggested that since the sky had changed, later generations didn't know what the gods etc referred to, so they assumed they referred to things in their own new environment, or to invisible entities.
_My plan now is to review Talbott's and Cardona's [and others'] writings to learn more about how myths evolved. I have a general idea, but not coherent. Saturn was first seen alone, then Venus and later Mars became visible, either after the Great Flood or after the Creation/Re-creation event hinted at in the opening of Genesis. Then the Golden Age occurred, followed by Venus and Mars becoming unstable, then Saturn departed, leaving Jupiter in its place, then the system ended at the Younger Dryas event. Here are Talbott's and Cardona's writings in Thoth, which is only a small part of their material. I have others from Aeon, Kronos etc. Those listed below are online, so everyone here can read from them directly.

www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=330#p3247
__NEW OUTLINE OF EARTH HISTORY
__EARTH HISTORY SUMMARY
1. 1st Age (ManyCenturies) -- 1'. GENESIS EVENT 6,000(±10c) BP
2. 2nd Age: FIRST GOLDEN AGE -- 2'. GREAT FLOOD 4,600(±2c) BP
3. 3rd Age: SECOND GOLDEN AGE -- 3'. YOUNGER DRYAS EVENT 4,250(±1c) BP
4. 4th Age: PRECHRISTIAN ERA -- 4'. CHRISTIAN EVENT 2,020-1,990 BP
5. 5th Age: CHRISTIAN ERA 1,990 BP to PRESENT
__LINKS TO WORK IN PROGRESS
1. 1st Age: PREGENESIS (Origin)-6,000 BP; futureschool.boards.net/thread/49/1st-age-pregenesis-origin-000
1'. GENESIS EVENT 6,000 BP; futureschool.boards.net/thread/50/genesis-event-000-10c-bp
2. 2nd Age: FIRST GOLDEN AGE 6,000-4,600 BP; futureschool.boards.net/thread/51/2nd-age-first-golden-000
2'. GREAT FLOOD 4,600 BP; futureschool.boards.net/thread/52/great-flood-700-2c-bp
3. 3rd Age: SECOND GOLDEN AGE 4,600-4,250 BP; futureschool.boards.net/thread/53/3rd-age-second-golden-700
3'. YOUNGER DRYAS EVENT 4,250 BP; futureschool.boards.net/thread/54/younger-dryas-event-300-1c
4. 4th Age: PRECHRISTIAN ERA 4,250-2,020 BP; futureschool.boards.net/thread/55/4th-age-prechristian-era-300
4'. CHRISTIAN EVENT 2,020-1,990 BP; futureschool.boards.net/thread/56/christian-event-020-990-bp
5. 5th Age: CHRISTIAN ERA 1,990 BP to PRESENT futureschool.boards.net/thread/57/5th-age-christian-era-present
__DETAILED SUMMARY
_1. 1st Age: PREGENESIS ____ (Origin)-6,000(±10c) BP
a. Saturn System Origin with Weak Gravity Due to Tidal Forces
b. Earth Origin
c. Supercontinent Origin
d. Pre-Flood Biosphere History: Era of Megafauna, Megaflora, Giant Insects, Normal Creatures
_1'. GENESIS EVENT ____6,000(±10c) BP;
a. Saturn Flare
b. Sunlight produced Revolving Saturn Crescent
_2. 2nd Age: FIRST GOLDEN AGE ____6,000(±10c)-4,700(±2c) BP;
a. Patriarchs
b. Pre-Flood Biosphere History: Era of Megafauna, Megaflora, Giant Insects, Normal Creatures
__2'. GREAT FLOOD ____4,700(±2c) BP;
a. Saturn Flare Ejected Debris = Meteors
b. Meteor Bombardment Formed Earth Basins
c. Close-elliptically-orbiting Small Moon Caused Monthly Tidal Waves
d. Six Monthly Tidal Waves Formed Six Sedimentary Rock Megasequences
e. Mid-flood Saturn Flare Deposited Debris & Thinned Atmosphere
f. Late-flood Asteroid Impact Shattered the Supercontinent
g. Rapid Continental Drift Separated Continents, Produced Widespread Volcanism & Formed Mountain Chains & Radioactive Crustal Elements
h. Antarctic Ice Age Began
i. Receding Flood Waters Formed the Grand Canyon & Many Large Lakes & Removed Surface Rock Strata in Many Places
_3. 3rd Age: SECOND GOLDEN AGE ____4,700(±2c)-4,300(±1c) BP;
a. Saturn Configuration & Beginning of Myth-making
b. Present Moon Arrived; Equatorial Lands Inundated by High Ocean Level
(Egypt is 30 degrees north of the equator. Cardona said the oceans were high at the North Pole, so it seems they may have been high both at the pole and the equator, so that might mean that they were low everywhere in between.)
c. Arctic Lands Warmed by Saturn
d. Age of Giant Mammals & Prolific Biosphere
e. Early Megalithic Civilization: Sumer, Egypt, Tiahuanaco, Gobekli Tepe, Baltic Troy; Bronze Age
_3'. YOUNGER DRYAS EVENT ____4,300(±1c) BP;
= Egyptian Second Intermediate Period?
a. Saturn Flare
b. Conflagration
c. Thinned Atmosphere & Arctic Carnage & Freezing
d. Planetoids in Chaotic Motion
e. Saturn System Broke Up
f. Gravity Increased; Gigantism Ended
_4. 4th Age: PRECHRISTIAN ERA ____4,300(±1c)-2,020 BP;
a. Arctic Permafrost Began; Greeks & Trojans Moved From Scandinavia to Mediterranean; Egypt & Sumer Continued; Late Bronze Age to Iron Age
b. Minor Impacts Continued for Centuries
c. Northern Climates Cooled; North Africa & Middle East Became Arid
d. Buddhism
e. Some Prechristian History has probably been Faked by a Ruling Class
_4'. CHRISTIAN EVENT ____2,020-1,990 BP;
a. Jesus taught & demonstrated Exemplary Living
_5. 5th Age: CHRISTIAN ERA ____1,990 BP to PRESENT
a. Jesus' Apostles followed and elaborated his Example
b. Pre-Constantine Christianity
c. Roman Christianity
d. Pacifist Christianity
e. Non-Christianity: Judaism, Buddhism, Islam etc
f. Republicanism
g. Much Christian Era History has been Faked by a Ruling Class
_COMMENT: I'll try to update all that soon. There seem to be at least 5 known Ages, which some of the ancients referred to. Looks like those listed above may be close to correct. I show 2 Golden Ages because the pre-Flood Age was likely Edenic, maybe even more so than post-Flood. But maybe the Saturn configuration was more impressive post-Flood and was more the Age of Myths.

www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=360#p3419
__MY EARTH HISTORY SUMMARY
futureschool.boards.net/post/36/thread
1. 1st Age: PREGENESIS -- ENDED WITH 1'. GENESIS "CREATION" EVENT 6,000(±10c) BP
2. 2nd Age: EARLY GOLDEN AGE -- ENDED WITH 2'. GREAT FLOOD 4,700(#2c) BP
3. 3rd Age: LATE GOLDEN AGE -- ENDED WITH 3'. YOUNGER DRYAS EVENT 4,300(#1c) BP
4. 4th Age: PRECHRISTIAN ERA -- ENDED WITH 4'. CHRISTIAN EVENT 2,020-1,990 BP
5. 5th Age: CHRISTIAN ERA 1,990 BP to PRESENT
__MY TIMELINE OF MAJOR EVENTS
1'. 4000 BC = 6000(±10c) BP GENESIS "CREATION" EVENT
2'. 2700 BC = 4700(#2c) BP 2'. GREAT FLOOD
3'. 2300 BC = 4300(#1c) BP 3'. YOUNGER DRYAS EVENT
4'. ~ 0 BC = 2020-1990 BP 4'. CHRISTIAN EVENT

www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=360#p3420
__SOME MAJOR PARTS OF EGYPTIAN, BIBLICAL & CATASTROPHIST CHRONOLOGY
__CHARLES CHANDLER'S CHRONOLOGY + MY COMMENTS
-- See qdl.scs-inc.us/?top=6883
3761 BC = 5761 BP Sumerians began time-keeping. [[Probably much later after YDE]]
2686 BC = 4686 BP The beginning of Egypt's Old Kingdom. [[ABOUT RIGHT]]
[[2300 BC = 4300 BP YOUNGER DRYAS CATACLYSM]]
2000 BC = 4000 BP People from the East founded Babylon. [[ABOUT RIGHT]]
1803 BC = 3803 BP Noah was born.
[[CC says there was a major flood during Noah's lifetime, but it would likely have been over 500 years earlier during the YD Cataclysm, unless there was another lesser, but major flood thereafter. The Great Flood and YD Cataclysm may have been conflated.]]
1740 BC = 3740 BP The Hyksos gained control of the eastern delta.
1700 BC = 3700 BP Nimrod built the Tower of Babel.
1550 BC = 3550 BP Ahmose I expelled the Hyksos to Jerusalem.
1415 BC = 3415 BP Terah took Abraham with him to Harran.
1380 BC = 3380 BP Abraham & Sarah were expelled from Egypt. [[SODOM & GOMORRAH DESTROYED by late major {Bronze Age} impact event]]
1368 BC = 3368 BP Rebekah (Tadukhipa) married Amenhotep III.
1354 BC = 3354 BP Moses was made vizier to Amenhotep III.
1352 BC = 3352 BP Akhenaten became pharaoh.
1338 BC = 3338 BP Moses married Zipporah, daughter of Isaac.
1332 BC = 3332 BP Tutankhamun became pharaoh.
.......... Esau began a 9-year tenure as lord of Hebron.
1319 BC = 3319 BP Horemheb became pharaoh.
1314 BC = 3314 BP The Ten Plagues
1312 BC = 3312 BP The Main Exodus [[THE PILLAR OF SMOKE & FIRE may have conflated the Late Golden Age polar column and an earlier migration with the Exodus]]
1307 BC = 3307 BP Moses gave the Book of the Law to the Hebrews.
1292 BC = 3292 BP Ramesses I became pharaoh.
1288 BC = 3288 BP End of Main Exodus
1208 BC = 3208 BP Merneptah suppressed the Sea Peoples.
1200 BC = 3200 BP Phoenicians came to dominate the Mediterranean.
1042 BC = 3042 BP Saul became king.
1012 BC = 3012 BP David became king. [[DAVID KILLED THE GIANT may have conflated Late Golden Age Giants with {the story of} David]]
0971 BC = 2971 BP Solomon became king.

www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=360#p3489
__BIBLICAL CATACLYSMS
_Brigit mentioned some or all of them. 1. "Creation"; 2. Great Flood; 3. Tower of Babel event; 4. Sodom and Gomorrah event. To that I add the Younger Dryas event, which may be the same as the Flood event. I mean the Septuagint and Masoretic versions may have dated two different Floods, the Great Flood of 3200 BC and the Younger Dryas Flood of 2500 BC. I think very little is left of civilization remains from before the Great Flood. I think Advanced Megalithic construction was from the centuries after the Great Flood, when Saturn was still present and caused weak gravity on Earth so heavy objects weren't nearly as heavy and people may have been larger. After Saturn left our immediate sky during the Younger Dryas Flood/event smaller stone structures were built often on top of advanced megalithic structures.

www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=390#p3750
__CATACLYSMIC HISTORY
_I have a thread by that title at futureschool.boards.net/thread/47/8-12-cataclysmic-history
_I'm hoping to make an online book there, one that can keep changing as new material comes to light. It's mostly just sort of an outline so far. I guess I'll make a chapter for each age, so that would be 5 chapters.
_Here's the Outline or something.
__EARTH HISTORY: FIVE AGES
_1. 1st Age: EARTH ORIGIN <from EARTH FORMATION to SUPERCONTINENT COLONIZATION: Unknown Origin to 7,000(±1k) BP
futureschool.boards.net/thread/49/1-1st-age
_2. 2nd Age: GENESIS GOLDEN AGE <from SUPERCONTINENT COLONIZATION to end of the GREAT FLOOD: 7,000(±1k)-4,700(±2c) BP
futureschool.boards.net/thread/51/2-2nd-age
_3. 3rd Age: LATE GOLDEN AGE <from end of the GREAT FLOOD to end of the YOUNGER DRYAS EVENT: 4,700(±2c)-4,300(±1c) BP
futureschool.boards.net/thread/53/3rd-age
_4. 4th Age: PRECHRISTIAN ERA <from end of YOUNGER DRYAS EVENT to end of PRECHRISTIAN ERA: 4,300(±1c)-2,020(±5y) BP = 0 AD
futureschool.boards.net/thread/55/4th-age
_5. 5th Age: CHRISTIAN ERA <from end of the CHRISTIAN EVENT to the PRESENT: ------------------------- 2,020(±5y)-0 BP = 0-2020 AD
futureschool.boards.net/thread/57/5th-age

www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=420#p4223
__EARTH HISTORY: GENESIS CREATION WAS AFTER THE GREAT FLOOD - NOAH'S FLOOD WAS LATER
_I get that from Cardona's material. I believe he misdated the Saturn Configuration. I think Saturn likely became visible after the Great Flood, because the atmosphere was likely much thicker and less transparent before the Flood. Cardona said Saturn looked red (and like a glow worm) and Venus and Mars were initially invisible. The former thicker atmosphere could cause that redness, like the Sun at dusk, seen through a greater distance of our present atmosphere. Venus and Mars likely only became visible after the second Flood, Noah's Flood, after the atmosphere was thinned even more by another Saturn flare-up.
_I'm thinking the "Recreation" event of Genesis 1 (called "Creation") must have been the time of the Great Flood. And the Patriarchs, if not mere myths, likely lived after that first Flood. So Noah's Flood would then have been the Younger Dryas Flood, during which the Tiahuanaco civilization was drowned. The first Patriarch, Adam, would have lived just after that Great Flood, before the myth making era, since there were few people at first. That would have been the timeless era that Cardona documented. The two great lights of Genesis 1 were the Sun and Saturn. The Moon arrived during the second Flood event.
_If the Tower of Babel was on Earth, it was built after the second Flood. The Tower of Babel was probably the Polar Column, but there may have been a manmade imitation.
_Dinosaurs dominated before the first Flood, then became mostly extinct. Large mammals dominated before the second Flood, the Younger Dryas Flood, then became also mostly extinct. Civilization began after the first Flood and was rebuilt after the second Flood.
__SUMMARY
Supercontinent 4000+BC (dated by zircons etc) with dinosaurs etc
Great Flood 3000 BC (dated by Septuagint Bible)
Divided Continents 3000 BC with the Patriarchs and Giant Mammals afterward
Younger Dryas Noah's Flood 2400 BC (dated by Masoretic Bible) with Saturn Configuration afterward
Departure of the Saturn planets 2200 BC (dating of Sumeria & Egypt)


__CHRONOLOGICALLY REORGANIZED HIGH PROBABILITY THREAD POSTS
_I've separated out all of the posts in this thread that seem highly probable due to substantial evidence. The links are to thread pages and the titles after the links can be found on those pages. I'm less certain about where the ice age, supercooling, and ice sheet flooding belong on the timeline, maybe after the Great Flood and/or after the YD Flood. The freezing of mammoths etc seems to belong after the YD Flood, but flooding of the ice sheet seems to belong there too, so it's hard to understand how melting, flooding and freezing could have occurred about the same time in the same places. I still don't well understand the Tiahuanaco sequence either. Most of the posts need a lot more supporting evidence, so they're not included here yet.
__UNIVERSE, SOLAR SYSTEM, EARTH
12. *UNIVERSE NOT EXPANDING
*John Kierein Compton Effect Redshift
14. *REDSHIFT COMPTON EFFECT
11. *CATHODE SUN?
12. *Relative cathode planets
*Cathode Sun
25. *THE CONTINENTS ARE ABOUT 6,000 YEARS OLD?; THE CONTINENTS ARE UNDER 8,000 YEARS OLD;
26. *YOUNG EARTH OR YOUNG SUPERCONTINENT: DATING HELIUM IN ZIRCONS; DATING ARGON IN GRANITE;
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
__GREAT FLOOD
1'. *LK: Baumgardner's Noah's Flood
*LK: Floods to strata.
*JP: Berthault on Stratification
13. *STRATA FORMATION
*Baumgartner's megasequences
*GLOBAL ROCK STRATA MEGASEQUENCES
*Maps of sediment thickness & Major basins
25. *NOAH’S FLOOD: THE KEY TO CORRECT INTERPRETATION OF EARTH HISTORY
*BAUMGARDNER'S PAPER SHOWS THAT SEDIMENTARY ROCK WAS MOSTLY FLOOD-DEPOSITED;
28. *FLOOD-DEPOSITED STRATA;
15. *COAL ANALYSES ETC
12. *Cardona's dating is wrong
13. *C14 DATING & RADIOACTIVE FOSSILS
*FROM WALTER BROWN'S MODEL: The Origin of Earth’s Radioactivity
*MORE DETAILS ON BROWN'S MODEL (Electrical Forces Produced Radioactivity, which entered some fossils)
20. *IMPACTS DURING THE GREAT FLOOD; False Glaciation Evidence;
31. *SEDIMENTARY BASINS FORMED BY IMPACTS
*PETROLEUM FORMED FROM MARINE ALGAE BURIED IN THE GREAT FLOOD
4'. *LK: Charles explained craters formed by impacts at ...
9. *BOLIDE IMPACT THERMONUCLEAR EXPLOSION CRATERS
3'. *CC: dinosaurs [couldn’t live now]; atmosphere was a lot thicker? KT impact caused dramatic reduction in atmospheric buoyancy; affected vulcanism, flood basalts
5'. *see re Mt. St. Helens creation.com/lessons-from-mount-st-helens re sedimentary deposition;
Canyons; Grooves cut in bedrock; Coal formation; polystrate tree fossils; Radioisotope dating
17. *DENSER ATMOSPHERE BEFORE GREAT FLOOD
*THICKER ATMOSPHERE BEFORE THE GREAT FLOOD
*LESS DISEASE BEFORE THE CATACLYSMS
*ASTEROID IMPACT DURING GREAT FLOOD; "STREWN FIELD"; ERRATICS, ERRATIC BOULDERS
1'. *LK: Mike Fischer's rapid continental drift
10. *SOME PROOF OF CONTINENTAL DRIFT
18. *SD in late stage of Flood
31. *SAHARA STRIATIONS WERE CAUSED BY FLOOD LANDSLIDES, NOT GLACIATION
19. *FLOOD; POST-FLOOD; YOUNGER DRYAS FLARFE-UP; RETURN OF CIVILIZATION
22. *FLOOD WINS;
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
__ICE AGE
19. *ICE AGE
31. *ICE AGE & ARCTIC MUCK, LOESS ETC
*I FINALLY UNDERSTAND ESKERS PROBABLY
25. *OLDEST TREE IS 4,700 YEARS OLD;
31. *LK: Megalithic Culture video
29. *GENESIS CREATION WAS AFTER THE GREAT FLOOD - NOAH'S FLOOD WAS LATER
20. *MYTHS WERE POST-FLOOD (and mostly before the Younger Dryas Flare-up)
23. *WORKING ON CHRONOLOGY VIA MYTHS
25. *THE BIBLE DATES THE FLOOD TO 4,500 OR 5,200 YEARS AGO;
26. *ANCIENTS WERE CONFUSED RE HEAVEN;
27. *WORD & SPIRIT OF GOD;
*MT is Correct; LXX is Incorrect
10'. *LK: Cochrane's articles vs revised chronologies
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
__YOUNGER DRYAS CATASTROPHE
5'. *YD: King List some 2400 years ago is oldest historical document; Sumerian sources 2000 BC
*YD: close agreement on the lifespans between Sumerian texts, the Bible and King List
7'. *<LK--Adonai = Aten? = Venus comet enclosure>
8'. *CC: Atum = formless creator god > Aten = Adon
*CC: shab'aten > Shabbat if shab'aten was illegal
10'. *CC: Aten ~= winged sun disk, which originated ca 2600BC (p531 oi.uchicago.edu/sites/oi.uchicago.edu/files/uploads/shared/docs/SHONKWILERDISSERTATION.pdf
19. *SATURN'S RINGS & ITS HOUSE
21. *CARDONA ON THE POLAR COLUMN (from God Star and Flare Star);
22. *PROOF OF SATURN'S POSSIBLE FORMER POLAR COLUMN
24. *PERATT'S PAPER
*PETROGLYPHS PROVE AN ANCIENT INTENSE AURORA EVENT
*PICTOGRAPHS DATE TO 7,000 YEARS BP;
*PETROGLYPHS DATE TO AT LEAST 4,000 BP;
*SATURN THEORY MOTIFS FROM PETROGLYPHS;
20. *IRON-60 (in solar system space) FROM SATURN NOVA?
*YOUNGER DRYAS CONFLAGRATION (vitrified structures)
16. *COSMIC METALS ON EARTH
*FLOODED ICE SHEET
22. *YOUNGER DRYAS CATACLYSMS
26. *See Randall Carlson on Floods
*RANDALL CARLSON & THE YOUNGER DRYAS EVENT
29. *SATURN SYSTEM BREAKUP AT YOUNGER DRYAS
21. *SUPERCOOLING
*FORMER ARCTIC FLORA/PLANTS;
*WAS THERE SUPERCOOLING OF THE ARCTIC? EVIDENCE OF FLASH FREEZING
22. *REMAINING EVIDENCE FOR FLASH FREEZING
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
__AFTER YD CATASTROPHE
6. *Hangeth the earth upon nothing
25. *Velikovsky, neurological effects: *structures were overwhelmed by hurricanes and powerful electrical discharges;
*people who lost their memory;
21. *GLOBAL COOLING ABOUT 2300 BC; CAUSE OF THE GLOBAL COOLING; DUST RING;
22. *MOE MANDELKEHR'S CATASTROPHIST MODEL: CLIMATE CHANGE; METEOROID STREAM; GLACIATION; SEA LEVEL CHANGES; CRUSTAL MOVEMENTS; EARTHQUAKES; GEOMAGNETISM; RADIOCARBON DATING; MYTHS
24. *SOME CIVILIZATION CAME FROM THE NORTH;
21. *COPPER FOR BRONZE AGE AFTER GREAT FLOOD [no, after YD Flood];
(Full Links)
funday.createaforum.com/x/cmc-140/msg287/#msg287

www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=465#p4679
__MORE HIGH PROBABILITY CATACLYSM FINDINGS
_I THINK ESKERS PROVE THE ICE SHEET COVERED MUCH OF CANADA ETC. SEE ESKERS MAP: ibb.co/VBFMTTd
Eskers seem to indicate where the margins of the ice sheets were located. Moraines should also indicate that.
__[ICE SHEET WAS THIN & SHORT-LIVED AFTER THE GREAT FLOOD]
Flood transported quartzites—east of the Rocky Mountains
creation.com/images/pdfs/tj/j19_3/j19_3_76-90.pdf
_On the plains between the plateaus, and north of the Cypress Hills, there are numerous but widely scattered deposits of in situ quartzite gravel called the ‘Saskatchewan Gravel’ or the ‘Empress Gravel’.30–32 Klevberg also found an in situ outcrop of Saskatchewan Gravel along the Marias River of north-west Montana east of the divide. There are also outcrops of quartzite boulders in the Bears Paw Mountains of north-central Montana.33 This material is a pre-glacial gravel capping bedrock and is often covered with diamict interpreted as glacial till. We have found that this diamict contains a fair proportion of reworked quartzite in practically all locations (figure 5). The quartzite, either from Cypflax or the Saskatchewan Gravel, is sometimes weathered and sometimes not in the diamict, indicating only a little glacial destruction. Thus, the Laurentide Ice Sheet during the Ice Age failed to erode the in situ Saskatchewan Gravel in some places and also failed to significantly weather quartzite clasts in the diamict, indicating very little erosive work by this ice sheet. This provides evidence that the ice sheet was thin and existed for only a short time.28
_Non-glacial landforms indicate thin Scandinavian and British-Irish Ice Sheets
creation.com/scandinavian-and-british-ice-sheets
__[FLOOD LANDSLIDES, NOT GLACIAL FLOW]
_Ancient ice ages or gigantic submarine landslides?
creation.com/images/pdfs/tj/j12_3/j12_3_270-272.pdf
_Oard's final chapter (chapter 12) presents the case for gigantic submarine landslides during the Genesis Flood. Oard rightly points out that the thick sediments deposited catastrophically during the Flood would have been unstable. Therefore huge earthquakes and massive Flood tectonics would have commonly mobilised large landslides and submarine mass/debris flows. Thus huge Flood diamictites would have been deposited on nearly flat basin bottoms. This is a feature of the diamictites that have been touted as deposits of pre-Pleistocene 'ice ages'. Indeed, Oard maintains that Flood-generated landslides would have duplicated the unusual features of these diamictites. In other words, huge landslides mimic the diagnostic features of these pre-Pleistocene 'ice age' deposits. To 'wrap up' his analysis, Oard briefly returns to the three key examples he discussed in-depth to paint the Flood scenario for deposition of each with their distinctive features, before making some concluding comments.
__[FLOOD ERRATICS]
_The Missoula Flood—analogue for the greatest flood of all
creation.com/review-of-the-missoula-flood
_Although Bretz originally hypothesized one Missoula flood, geologists today propose up to 100 such floods. Soennichsen noted that: “Current research has raised this total to forty, sixty, eighty—even a hundred floods or more” (p. 251). The multiple Missoula floods are based on an interpretation of rhythmites,8 usually presuming one rhythmite per flood. Bennito and O’Connor admit: “We infer that each sand and gravel couplet [rhythmite] was deposited during a single flood” (italics added).9 However, multiple rhythmites may be formed during a single flood, and the lack of cut-and-fill structures and angular unconformities in Walla Walla Valley rhythmites indicate a single gigantic Missoula flood.10,11 Clastic dikes transecting the entire sequence of rhythmites exposed in Burlingame Canyon reinforces this interpretation.10,11 Some geologists are now returning to Bretz’s original hypothesis of one gigantic Missoula flood.12

www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=465#p4736
__CATASTROPHIC HISTORY FINDINGS FROM THIS THREAD
_I previously posted the chronologically reordered high probability topic titles in this post {above}.
_I regard those as being most probably correct. Most everything else in this thread seems less certain. So now I can start adding details to each of those titles. I'll start with a summary of each topic. Then I can go back to the original posts to find sources and then copy or paraphrase each one.
_I divided the reordered posts into 4 sections chronologically: 1) the Universe, Solar System & Earth; 2) Great Flood; 3) Ice Age; 4) YD Event; 5) After YD Event. For now I'm just doing the 1st section.
__UNIVERSE, SOLAR SYSTEM & EARTH
_12. www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=165
__*UNIVERSE NOT EXPANDING
_The universe is not expanding at a rapid rate, as claimed by Big Bang theory. In that theory, it is thought that the redshift of light from distant objects is due to the Doppler effect, which would be the result of objects moving away at high velocity.
*John Kierein Compton Effect Redshift
_But John Kierein has explained that the redshift is generally due to the Compton Effect, which indicates high ionization of the source, rather than due to the Doppler Effect of high velocity. The high redshift quasar in front of a low redshift galaxy proves that redshift does not indicate distance or velocity as by the Doppler Effect.
_14. www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=195
__*REDSHIFT COMPTON EFFECT
_11. www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=150
__*CATHODE SUN?
_12. www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=165
*Relative cathode planets
*Cathode Sun
_Charles Chandler, along with Michael Mozina and Brant Callahan, have found that the Sun must be a cathode, rather than an anode. The Sun is not in an electrical circuit within the galaxy. Instead, the Sun is powered electrically by its internal battery of nearly current-free double (positive & negative) electric layers. These layers were formed when the Sun formed, possibly along with planets (planets have fewer internal double layers), by the implosion of a galactic filament, which also produced a supernova explosion.
_25. www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=360
__*THE CONTINENTS ARE ABOUT 6,000 YEARS OLD; THE CONTINENTS ARE UNDER 8,000 YEARS OLD
_26. www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=375
__*YOUNG EARTH OR YOUNG SUPERCONTINENT: DATING HELIUM IN ZIRCONS; DATING ARGON IN GRANITE
_These datings show that the Earth, or at least the former supercontinent Pangaea, was formed 6 to 8 thousand years ago.

www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=480#p4960
__JUST 4 AGES
__1. 1st Age: EARTH ORIGIN
futureschool.boards.net/thread/49/1-1st-age
a. SATURN SYSTEM PLANETS ORIGIN - Jupiter, Saturn, Venus, Mars, Earth Formed by Electrical Implosion (like Beads on a String)
b. SUPERCONTINENT FORMATION ____7,000(±1k) BP - Supercontinent formed from asteroid soft landing
c. GENESIS GOLDEN AGE: SUPERCONTINENT COLONIZATION: CONTINENTAL BIOME (Thicker Atmosphere and Weak Gravity favored Megafauna, Megaflora, Giant Insects
d. BIBLE PATRIARCHS
e. GREAT FLOOD ____4,700(±2c) BP
e1. SATURN FLARE (just before the Flood and at the iridium anomaly)
e2. ASTEROID IMPACTS
e3. ELLIPTICALLY ORBITING TIDAL ASTEROID/MOON
e4. TSUNAMI MEGASEQUENCES
e5. RAPID CONTINENTAL DRIFT IMPACTOR
e6. MOUNTAIN FORMATION
__2. 2nd Age: LATE GOLDEN AGE ____4,700(±2c)-4,300(±1c) BP
futureschool.boards.net/thread/53/3rd-age
a. SATURN CONFIGURATION & MYTH-MAKING
b. SMALL MOON IN CLOSE ORBIT (Equatorial Lands Inundated by High Ocean Level?)
c. WARM ARCTIC (due to Saturn above North Pole)
d. NORTH AMERICAN ICE SHEET (due to Aurora)
e. AGE OF GIANT MAMMALS (due to Saturn tidal effect)
f. EARLY ADVANCED MEGALITHIC CIVILIZATION (modeled on Saturn Configuration: Sumer, Egypt, Tiahuanaco, Gobekli Tepe, Baltic Troy; Bronze Age)
g. YOUNGER DRYAS EVENT ____4,300(±1c) BP = Egyptian Second Intermediate Period?
g1. SATURN FLARE (another iridium anomaly)
g2. CONFLAGRATION
g3. ICE SHEET MELT FLOOD
g4. SATURN MOVED TO PRESENT ORBIT
g5. JUPITER REPLACED SATURN over North Pole
g6. VENUS, MARS & JUPITER MOVED TO PRESENT ORBITS
__3. 3rd Age: PRECHRISTIAN ERA ____4,300(±1c)-2,020 BP
futureschool.boards.net/thread/53/3rd-age
a. CLIMATE CHANGE: ARCTIC PERMAFROST & SUBTROPIC DESERTIFICATION
(Greeks & Trojans Moved From Scandinavia to Mediterranean; Egypt & Sumer Continued; Late Bronze Age to Iron Age)
b. PERIODIC IMPACTS (Continued for Centuries & Led to Halloween)
c. EARLY RELIGIONS (Buddhism & others were modeled on the Golden Age)
d. RULING CLASS (Some Prechristian History has probably been Faked by a Ruling Class)
__4. 4th Age: CHRISTIAN ERA 2,020 BP to PRESENT (____0-2020 AD)
futureschool.boards.net/thread/55/4th-age
a. CHRISTIAN EVENT 2020-1990 BP = ____0-30 AD
a1. JESUS' APOSTLES (followed and elaborated his Example) ____30-70 AD
a2. PACIFIST CHRISTIANITY (Christians opposed war) ____70-2020 AD
a3. ROMAN CHRISTIANITY (The Romans invented Pagan Christianity) ____312-2020 AD
a4. NONCHRISTIANITY (Judaism, Buddhism, Islam etc modeled on the Golden Age)
a5. REPUBLICANISM (Biblical Political Economics invented by Nicolas of Cusa) 1450-2020 AD
a6. FAKE HISTORY (Much Christian Era History has been Faked by a Ruling Class)

www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=525#p5104
__WHEN DID THE SATURN SYSTEM BREAK UP? Part 2
__NO HUMAN REMAINS WITH DINOSAUR REMANS?
_Ev said: ... While most of us here are willing to concede that vast quantities of sedimentary rock can be deposited in a short period of time, you still need to account for the incontestable fact that the dinosaur bones are typically found well below the geological layers having human remains. Likewise, we have abundant rock art for the period from 30,000 BCE on that, while it shows plenty of extinct animals like wooly Mammoths, never shows dinosaurs. How does your theory explain those two inconvenient facts? If all of this rock was suddenly deposited around 2300 BCE you would expect to find dinosaur bones jumbled together with human remains and references to TREX in the Pyramid Texts. The fact this *never* happens is strong evidence against your scenario, I should think.
__EVIDENCE FOR TWO MAJOR CATACLYSMS (3000 & 2300 BC)
_LK: I wasn't saying the Great Flood (which deposited nearly all of the sedimentary rock) occurred c. 2300 BC. That was the Younger Dryas event, which likely did include flooding, but not as severe as the Great Flood, which latter seems to have occurred c. 3,000 BC, a number of centuries earlier. Since the supercontinent, Pangaea, at the time of the Great Flood, was lowland, without mountains, it didn't require tidal waves several miles high to drown it; it only required tidal waves a few hundred meters high to do so. So there likely weren't many human survivors of the Great Flood and not be many records of it. Many or most people survived the later Younger Dryas cataclysms, so there are many more records.
_I have an index for this thread at futureschool.boards.net/thread/29/creationism-myth-catastrophism-thread-index
One of my posts there from thread page 26 has these topics.
__YOUNG EARTH OR YOUNG SUPERCONTINENT: DATING HELIUM IN ZIRCONS; DATING ARGON IN GRANITE; COAL, DIAMONDS, DINOSAUR BONES; MY SLIGHTLY REVISED TIMELINE; SEVERAL POSSIBLE MEANS OF SUPERCONTINENT COLONIZATION
_Here's the link to the post: www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=375#p3653
_The dating of zircons and argon in granite (in the U.S. Southwest, I think) indicates that the granite is no more than 8 or 9 thousand years old. C14 dates dinosaur bones mostly to between 20 and 30 thousand years old and coal to a little older. And C14 dating isn't entirely accurate either. Some dinosaur bones in the arctic are unfossilized or partly so. Although there may have been only some tens of thousands of humans at the time of the Great Flood and thus very few leaving remains, I believe human remains were found in a bonebed with dinosaur fossils near the east coast around the Carolinas. Human fossils were found in Colorado or nearby in a formation that also contains dinosaur fossils. Human footprints are side-by-side with dinosaur tracks in Texas. There are a number of ancient drawings, sculptures, and records of dinosaurs. The mainstream doesn't help, since they often try to hide or even destroy evidence that undermines their main beliefs.
_What evidence is there that any rock art is 30,000 years old?
_And when do you think the Saturn Configuration broke up?
__PYRAMID TEXT QUOTE RE CREATION
_Ev said: “Hearts were pervaded with fear, hearts were pervaded with terror when I was born in the Abyss before the sky existed, before the earth existed, before that which was to be made firm existed, before turmoil existed, before that fear which arose on account of the Eye of Horus existed." (PT 1039-1040).
_Thank you for providing the translated PT quote. I think you said you aren't highly impressed with Cardona's research, but his is the only research I've had access to regarding the possible time period of the Saturn configuration. And I think he got the major cataclysms backwards. He put the Younger Dryas event before the Great Flood, I think, because he didn't realize that the sedimentary rock was deposited during the Flood. Since the Younger Dryas strata are near the top of the rock record, they were obviously deposited after the Flood sediments.
_As I suggested lately, the iridium spikes in the Flood sediments and Younger Dryas sediments may be due to Saturn flareups, as Cardona kind of seemed to say. The "creation" event should have been at the time of the Great Flood, just before it started, where the Bible said "Let there be light", which Cardona thought indicated a Saturn flareup. I figure there is no iridium spike at the bottom of the sedimentary rock record, because the Flood probably mixed it up with other sediments.
_So, I reckon the PT quote was probably referring to the onset of the Great Flood of c. 3000 BC.
{But I don't reckon that now. I think offhand that the PT was written after the Great Flood and before the YD Flood, when advanced civilization began.}

www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=555#p5566
__TENTATIVE NEW CATACLYSMIC TIMELINE
5000 BC Pangaea Supercontinent Formation
3000 BC Great Flood Sedimentary Strata Formation
3000-2500 BC Chicxulub Impact
2500 BC Asteroid Impacting Pangaea Breakup & Orogeny
2300 BC Younger Dryas Early Bronze Age Collapse
1700 BC Sodom & Gomorrah Impact (See qdl.scs-inc.us/?top=18628 )
1200 BC Late Bronze Age Collapse
(The Pangaea Breakup and Younger Dryas Event may have been at the same time. The cause of the LBA collapse isn't clear yet.)

www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=570#p5624
__CHECKING MY RECENT CATACLYSMS TIMELINE FOR ATLANTIS THEORY
5000 BC Pangaea Supercontinent Formation
3000 BC Great Flood Sedimentary Strata Formation
between 3000-2500 BC Chicxulub Impact
2500 BC Asteroid Impacting Pangaea
[Add Ice Sheet and/or Saturn polar column removed most ocean water after the Flood. Oceans needed to be at or near present level in order to flood Pangaea.]
[Add Atlantis was built on the Atlantic Ocean floor after the continents moved apart, because the Atlantic Ocean didn't exist before that. Atlantis canals had to be built after the Great Flood, because Flood sediments would have buried them otherwise.]
2300 BC Younger Dryas Early Bronze Age Collapse
[Add 1200 mile diameter Snowball Comet impact raised ocean levels and flooded Atlantis and the Mediterranean Basin.]
1700 BC Sodom & Gomorrah Impact (See qdl.scs-inc.us/?top=18628 )
1200 BC Late Bronze Age Collapse
_Offhand, it's hard to imagine that the ocean levels could have dropped so low from Ice Sheet formation and/or Saturn polar column attraction, although the river beds on the ocean floor strongly suggest that it's true.
_Maybe I'll get time to check out the following Creationist sites to see if they have anything useful on Atlantis. I doubt that they do.
- creation.com/search#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=atlantis&gsc.page=1
- www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aicr.org+Atlantis
- www.google.com/search?q=site%3Ahttps%3A%2F%2Fanswersingenesis.org+atlantis
I might also try Catastrophism.com at www.catastrophism.com/intro/search.cgi?zoom_query=atlantis&zoom_per_page=25&zoom_and=1&zoom_cat=-1

www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=570#p5715
__THE GREAT CATACLYSMS
_I started a thread on my private Funday forum where I can try to put together a comprehensive paper on this topic. Here's what I'm starting with there, just a first draft.
__THE GREAT CATACLYSMS
_Earth and its creatures have suffered numerous cataclysmic events over the millennia.
_At least eight such major events are apparent so far. They are as follows.
_1. ..... BC: Earth Formation
- - - - - < qdl.scs-inc.us/?top=12582
_2. 5000 BC: The Pangaea Supercontinent Formation
- - - - - < zircon & potassium/argon Dating & qdl.scs-inc.us/?top=15407
_3. 3000 BC: The Great Flood Sedimentary Rock Formation
- - - - - < Septuagint Flood Dating viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=360#p3439
_4. 3000- BC: The Chicxulub Impact in Mexico
- - - - - < newgeology.us/
_5. 2500 BC: The Asteroid Impact Pangaea Breakup Event
- - - - - < newgeology.us/
_6. 2300 BC: The Younger Dryas Saturn Nova Event
- - - - - < Masoretic Flood Dating
_7. 1700 BC: The Middle Bronze Age Collapse
- - - - - < Sodom & Gomorrah Airburst < qdl.scs-inc.us/?top=18628 & qdl.scs-inc.us/?top=7793
_8. 1200 BC: The Late Bronze Age Collapse
- - - - - < Claude Schaeffer
__COMMENTARY
_The following is some commentary on each of these cataclysms, which I haven't posted there yet, since it will need to be edited.
_1. ..... BC: Earth Formation
- - - - - < qdl.scs-inc.us/?top=12582
I haven't given this initial "cataclysm" a lot of thought lately, but it seems most likely that Earth formed as part of the Saturn system outside of the solar system, as Cardona has said in his books. The link there is to Charles Chandler's paper on how planets form. I think that's how the Saturn system and the solar system formed in two nearby locations, possibly from the same imploding galactic filament. The Saturn system planets formed in a line and moved inward toward a point near but not at the Sun. Thus, they got into a spiraling orbit which got as close as the orbit of Venus before the planets broke away from the Saturn system and moved to their present orbits. So far, I haven't tried to determine when the implosion of the galactic filament likely began, but Charles has mentioned something like a hundred thousand years or more as a likely amount of time for an implosion. I guess the filament would be several lightyears long. I don't know how long life likely existed on any of the Saturn system planets.
_2. 5000 BC: The Pangaea Supercontinent Formation
- - - - - < zircon & potassium/argon Dating & qdl.scs-inc.us/?top=15407
I've discussed the dating with zircon in the granite continents a few pages back in this thread. A Creationist article said they date to 8,000 years or less. It claimed that the dating applies to the entire Earth, but I think it only applies to the Pangaea supercontinent. The link here is to another paper by Charles. He thinks a large asteroid soft-landed on Earth to form the supercontinent. It could have done that, I think, by spiraling down to Earth gradually. I think Mike Fischer said there was already another small land mass, which later became part of Antarctica. So life may have existed on that land mass and then spread to the new supercontinent later after cooling down, since I think it would have been very hot for some time after landing and morphing, i.e. changing shape via gravity etc.
_3. 3000 BC: The Great Flood Sedimentary Rock Formation
- - - - - < Septuagint Flood Dating viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=360#p3439
Most of the sedimentary rock on Earth likely formed during the Great Flood, during meteor bombardment, which along with lunar tides produced tidal waves, that deposited the strata on the supercontinent. The Septuagint Bible may have about the right dating for the Great Flood. One or more Floods likely occurred later. I think megalithic civilization existed after the Great Flood, maybe not before.
_4. 3000- BC: The Chicxulub Impact in Mexico
- - - - - < newgeology.us/
This impact occurred after the Great Flood and before Event #5, the Pangaea Breakup Event, but it's hard to tell more precisely when. It may have been part of a Saturn nova that produced the iridium layer etc.
_5. 2500 BC: The Asteroid Impact Pangaea Breakup Event
- - - - - < newgeology.us/
This event occurred a few centuries after the Great Flood, since mammoths needed enough time after the Flood to number several million by the time of their extinction, according to Mike. This event also produced a major Flood, most likely, since the continents moved quite a bit and the sea level probably wasn't very low. This is when Tiahuanaco was destroyed by Flood and was raised up from sea level to its present height of over 12,000 feet in the Andes.
_6. 2300 BC: The Younger Dryas Saturn Nova Event
- - - - - < Masoretic Flood Dating
This event produced a conflagration and impacts that rapidly melted the ice sheet and caused major Flooding again, which the Masoretic Bible says was Noah's Flood, it seems. I'll have to reread my earlier posts to see why this event was likely separate from Event #5. This event and possibly #5 as well formed more sedimentary rock strata, under which have been found evidence of prior civilization. I didn't realize that previously when I thought all of the strata were deposited by the first Great Flood. This may be when the Grand Canyon formed, as the Colorado Plateau was covered with an ice sheet, I think, and two large lakes drained to erode the canyon.
_7. 1700 BC: The Middle Bronze Age Collapse
- - - - - < Sodom & Gomorrah Airburst < qdl.scs-inc.us/?top=18628 & qdl.scs-inc.us/?top=7793
I don't know much about the Bronze Age Collapses, but I assume the Airburst the Charles wrote about may have caused it.
_8. 1200 BC: The Late Bronze Age Collapse
- - - - - < Claude Schaeffer
This collapse was mentioned by Bridgette a few pages back, I think. It involved a lot of fire and earthquake damage over a large area of the Middle East and more.
_PS, Clive and Napier wrote that there have likely been more recent smaller-scale cataclysms. I think they suggested that the Roman Empire may have finally collapsed because of meteor impacts and similar cataclysms. That was near 500 AD. So it's only in the last millennium or so that Earth has not suffered from impacts and/or airbursts.

www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=570#p5721
__ADDITIONAL CATACLYSMIC EVENTS
_I want to find out yet when the following cataclysms occurred.
_Saturn System Breakup
_Euro-NorthAmerican Ice Sheet
_Sea Level Changes
_Pole Shift
_Black Sea Flood
_Mediterranean Flood
_Grand Canyon Formation
_Antarctic Canyon Formation
_Antarctic Ice Sheet
_Then I'd be able to plot them on my timeline, although the dates will likely need considerable adjusting.
1. ..... BC: Earth Formation
2. 5000 BC: The Pangaea Supercontinent Formation
3. 3000 BC: The Great Flood Sedimentary Rock Formation
4. 2600 BC: The Chicxulub Impact in Mexico --- (Iridium Deposition)
5. 2500 BC: The Asteroid Impact Pangaea Breakup Event
6. 2300 BC: The Younger Dryas Saturn Nova Event --- (Iridium Deposition)
7. 1700 BC: The Middle Bronze Age Collapse
8. 1200 BC: The Late Bronze Age Collapse

www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=570#p5729
__TENTATIVE PLACEMENTS OF THE ADDITIONAL CATACLYSMIC EVENTS
_SSB: Saturn System Breakup
_ENIS: Euro-NorthAmerican Ice Sheet
_SLC: Sea Level Changes
_PS: Pole Shift
_BSF: Black Sea Flood
_MF: Mediterranean Flood
_GCF: Grand Canyon Formation
_ACF: Antarctic Canyon Formation
_AIS: Antarctic Ice Sheet
__After Cat.6: Saturn System Breakup. If Saturn flares or novas were the source of the iridium layers, which I show at Cat.4 and Cat.6, then the Saturn system must have broken up after Cat.6. Jupiter replaced Saturn but I don't know for how long and I don't know if Jupiter warmed the Arctic or if the polar column continued under Jupiter. The Arctic was still warm after the Great Flood apparently, due to Saturn, Venus and Mars' presence above the Arctic.
__After Cat.3: The Euro-NorthAmerican Ice Sheet likely formed after the Great Flood, while the Arctic remained warm. The impacts of the Younger Dryas event likely caused the rapid freezing of the Arctic, so the Saturn system must have broken up at that time after first causing a global firestorm, ironically.
__After Cat.3: The Antarctic Ice Sheet likely formed also after the Great Flood.
__After Cat.3: Sea Level likely dropped as the Ice Sheets formed. Did the Saturn polar column pull up much ocean water too, so that the ocean floors were mostly exposed? If so, for how long? So far, I haven't given that much thought. Offhand, it seems improbable, but who knows? The ocean floors do seem to have been nearly dry at least briefly and the underwater city near Cuba was built during very low sea levels, unless that location sank. And let's not forget the riverbeds on the ocean floors.
__During Cat.5 or Cat.6: Pole Shift may have occurred then, as some of my recent posts suggested.
__During Cat.6: Mediterranean Flood likely occurred first, then the Black Sea Flood. The Euro-NorthAmerican Ice Sheet likely melted catastrophically at that time. The Grand Canyon Formation likely occurred then too. The Global Conflagration may have melted the Antarctic Ice Sheet and its Canyon could have formed then and the Ice Sheet reformed shortly afterward, in the same way that the Arctic Ice Sheet formed due to flash freezing from impacts etc.
__Cat.1. ..... BC: Earth Formation
__Cat.2. 5000 BC: The Pangaea Supercontinent Formation
__Cat.3. 3000 BC: The Great Flood Sedimentary Rock Formation
_ENIS
_AIS
_SLC
__Cat.4. 2600 BC: The Chicxulub Impact in Mexico --- (Iridium Deposition)
__Cat.5. 2500 BC: The Asteroid Impact Pangaea Breakup Event
__Cat.6. 2300 BC: The Younger Dryas Saturn Nova Event --- (Iridium Deposition)
_PS
_SSB
_MF
_BSF
_GCF
_ACF
_AIS
__Cat.7. 1700 BC: The Middle Bronze Age Collapse
__Cat.8. 1200 BC: The Late Bronze Age Collapse

www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=585#p5843
__Ancient Cataclysms: 9 Catastrophes That Rocked the World
www.ancient-origins.net/history-important-events/ancient-cataclysms-0011918
_This mostly mentions more recent cataclysms, but it also mentions Chicxulub and the Carolina Bays events. Probably not very informative, but maybe a little.
__ECHOES OF ANCIENT CATACLYSMS IN THE BALTIC SEA [REGION]
citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.580.3750&rep=rep1&type=pdf
_This paper is pretty good. It mentions cataclysms of about 2000 BC in the Baltic Sea region and myths that may relate to impacts and other cataclysmic effects.
__GIANTS IN MYTHS
The Last of the Rephaim: Conquest and Cataclysm in the Heroic Ages of Ancient Israel
digitalcommons.georgefox.edu/ccs/3/
_This abstract suggests that giants in ancient Israel related to chaos forces.

www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=630#p6643
__MY EARTH HISTORY CATACLYSMS TIMELINE & QUESTIONS
_I named my Facebook group Catastrophism, Creationism, Velikovsky, Saturn Theory at www.facebook.com/groups/3125304601057811
Here's the description.
... I don't believe the Bible is infallible. But Creationists are otherwise good scientists. Velikovsky made some sound findings, but Saturn theorists improved on them, IMO.
Here are highlights of my present best guesses about Earth History.
1. Earth formed in the Saturn or Jupiter system (Jupiter may have been in front of Saturn and not visible from Earth) outside the solar system. Saturn was a small red dwarf star that flared as a nova periodically.
2. The supercontinent, Pangaea, formed from an asteroid collision or tidal pull from Saturn.
3. The Moon or a large asteroid on an elliptical orbit around Earth caused tsunamis at each perigee (close approach). Pangaea was lowland with no mountains, so the tsunamis flooded the entire supercontinent. The Flood deposited most of the sediments that formed Earth's sedimentary rock strata. A Saturn nova possibly produced the iridium, nanodiamonds etc found at the K/T boundary of the time of the dinosaur extinction. Many asteroid or meteor impacts occurred at the time of the Flood.
4. The ice sheet formed on northwestern Pangaea (now Canada and northwestern Europe), due to volcanic and impact dust, but the north pole and Siberia were warmed by Saturn over the north pole, which may have been in Egypt at that time, or maybe not.
5. Another Saturn nova caused the Younger Dryas impacts and more iridium and nanodiamonds etc. A large asteroid struck Pangaea on the central eastern side of Africa and broke it up into continents, which slid rapidly over the Moho layer to their present locations. The impact caused all of the mountain chains to form. Flooding again occurred which deposited more sedimentary strata.
6. Earth and the Saturn/Jupiter system were at the asteroid belt at that time. Saturn was destabilized and moved away back to its present orbit. Jupiter was then seen in its place. Myths spoke of Jupiter deposing Saturn. Earth continued to be warmed by Jupiter as it moved to its present orbit and the other planets moved to theirs.
7. Earth continued to encounter large objects in the Taurid meteor stream over the following centuries, which caused occasional cataclysmic impacts on a smaller scale. Halloween became a tradition to commemorate those who died when Earth crossed the meteor stream.
So there were two Great Floods. Little if any remains of human society exists from before the first Great Flood, because it deposited rock strata over it or washed it away. But Egypt, Sumeria, Tiahuanaco etc seem to have been built shortly after the first Flood. The second Flood was apparently less severe.
See my forum threads, Evidence of Ancient Global Cataclysm, at www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=16025
and Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism, at www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&p=6665#p6665
_Here's my second post on the Facebook group.
#catastrophism
3 QUESTIONS for New Members.
I just created this group yesterday. Then I invited several members of other groups to join and Katrina is the first to accept the invitation (Thank you). Here are my first questions.
1. Do you think it's likely or unlikely that there was a Great Flood less than 7,000 years ago which caused the extinction of most dinosaurs?
2. Also, do you think it's likely or unlikely that the ice age occurred only after the Great Flood?
3. And do you think it's likely or unlikely that the Younger Dryas impacts occurred less than 5,000 years ago which caused the extinction of most large mammals, including mammoths?